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An Issue In Which Rages Me...


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I can't remember exactly when this subject became final in the United States, probably a couple years ago or so. Either way, I cannot understand, for the life of me, gay boys cannot join the Cub Scouts. For the reasons of:


1.) What, aren't they about eight years old? How would they even know they're gay.


2.) How would the Cub Scouts know they're gay?  :hmm:


3.) If all of the above is indicated, how would that effect their Cub Scout-tyness. (Like the new word I made up? *grin*)


4.) Nine times out of ten, a gay boy isn't going to join the Cub Scouts unless their parents make them. It's the ballet classes they need to worry about, for goodness sake.


Even banning gays FROM the U.S. military seems more reasonable than the freakin' Cub Scouts.

That doesn't mean I agree with banning gays FROM the military. That's the governments doing - what really can you do?  :no:


If I'm missing something on this matter, maybe some of you can make me see the light and/or a different perspective.

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4.) Nine times out of ten, a gay boy isn't going to join the Cub Scouts unless their parents make them. It's the ballet classes they need to worry about, for goodness sake.
I wish I had been made to join the ballet..  To meet the girls


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First and foremost...   :glare:   to the organization that is the Boy Scouts of America...


"The mission of Penn Forest Boy Scout Troop 555 is to develop future leaders of America, by providing leadership opportunities through scouting. This will be accomplished by teaching and promoting the Scout Law, developing their skills through rank advancement, and providing a proud, supportive, environment."


*A scout breaking any State, County or U.S. laws will have due process of law before the committee takes any action regarding any scout in question.

*Proper respect is to be shown at all times.

*When scout sign is up everyone shall be quiet.

*NO use of alcohol, tobacco or drugs.

*NO playing with fire or fireworks.

*NO fighting or hitting another person.

*NO horseplay in meeting room.

*NO loud language or name calling FROM any scout or leader.

*NO weapons other than a folding pocket knife.



"Troop 78 is a boy-led troop that emphasizes the scouting ideals of developing young leaders, serving the community and enjoying and respecting the outdoors. We are committed to adventure, learning, challenge and fun. We encourage all scouts to respect each other and seek responsibility both within the troop and in their everyday lives. We are disciplined in all that we do; in our meetings, in our camping and in our service to others."


Those are just two samples of Boy Scout mission statements...a lot of them were rather redundant, that's why I didn't put more.  In reading them, the main thing that could make it "right" to exclude gays is the word "ethical."  


On to Monopolized's list:

1)  I think it's true that a lot of kids probably don't know definitely if they are gay or not when they first join the scouts...but I guess when the realization comes about they're supposed to scoot on out??  I think it's dumb personally.

2)  The Scouts wouldn't necessarily know...if the kid never officially came out.  However, you know how society is today.  You open your mouth about anything once and soon enough the gossip is flying...

3)  Their "Scout-tyness" is affected in that it is "unethical" to be gay.  If you read INTO the majority of the scout's mission statements, laws, bylaws, etc. you'll see that many contain statements much like this one:

"The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow INTO the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training.  Its policy is that the home and the organization or GROUP with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.  Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to participate."  (I have much to say, but I will finish responding to Monopolized's list before I rant).

4)  I agree...


On to my rant.  I was not raised in the church.  And, I do not think that I or my parents are bad people because of that.  Do I believe there is a higher power...yeah.  But most of the time I just like to leave it at that.  My dad was raised Catholic, he and most of his brothers were scouts, they liked it, but they didn't follow through to Eagle scout.  My mother, well, she is FROM Vietnam.  They were/are Buddhist.  My mom's family still holds on to many of their Buddhist beliefs, however, when they came to the U.S. in 1975 they were sponsored by no other than my dad's Catholic Church.  And of course they were expected to convert.  Because the Buddhist religion just wasn't "legit" in their eyes.  It's all good and well.  We all (in my family) believe there is a God, whether his/her name be Buddha, God, or Fred.  I guess for the Scouts it's more of "if you're atheist we don't want you around."  Of course, if I were atheist I probably wouldn't want to join anyway.  But my point is...in many religions it's just WRONG to be gay - because you can control it and all - therefore you're not "right" for the Scouts.  I think it's dumb...and I don't think I ever want my children to be members.  Because even if you're discriminating based on what your religion states, you're still discriminating.  The funniest thing of it all...the majority of the Scouts that I went to high school with aren't doing so hot now.  As much as I loved the guy, my classmate, Pat, was an Eagle Scout...and he was all about drugs.  He died last year FROM an unintentional drug overdose.  It's good that their leadership helped him out in the long run, right?  And there are many cases similar to his FROM his Troop back home.  All in all, the Scouts disappoint me...and that is all about that...for now...


Oh yeah...my friends and I have just learned to get over the whole religious discrimination thing because of this:

My friend, who is Buddhist, was dating this girl, who is Christian.  She told him one day "I love you, but I need to tell you...when you die you're going to heck."  First off...WHY?  Why would you say that to your boyfriend.  But anyway...my friends and I came to this conclusion.

I am a non-denominational Christian, therefore, according to those hardcore Baptists, Catholics, and others, I am going to heck.  Because of that I say "All of them CAN GO TO heck!" (hehe...not really...it's just...if I'm going to heck because I'm not like them, then in my eyes, shouldn't they be going to heck because they're not like me?).  Also, all those that are Buddhist, Hindu, whatever, are going to heck because they're not Baptist, Catholic, whatever...you get the point.  If you're a believer in Religion X, then those in Religion Y are going to heck...and vicer versa.  So, we say...we're obviously all going to heck based on what the other one says, so who really gives a darn anymore??


And ya'll know what "heck" really is...I just won't bother with the filling in letters with *'s thing.    Sorry for such a long post!

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Wow. I think I've made myself a new friend. lol :worship:


I completely agree with everything you posted. Once again, I couldn't have said it better myself. Ever thought about being a lawyer? *grin*



" I do not envisage God other than truth and non-violence. If you have accepted the doctrine of ahimsa without a full realization of its implications, you are at liberty to repudiate it. I believe in confessing one's mistakes and correcting them. Such confession strengthens one and purifies the soul. Ahimsa calls for the strength and courage to suffer without retaliation, to receive blows without returning any. "

- Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948) Indian patriot, moralist and social reformer.


:flirt:  - Monopolized

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Hmmm...being a lawyer...I'm not much for public speaking and I am horrible at memorizing things...my brother has the mouth for it...he never shuts up, and believes that he's always right.   (But we won't get INTO that right now.   :-D   )   I can say what I need to say...but I do better with it in writing.  Want a contract drafted?  Come to me and I'll try to help you out.  It's funny that you asked that because my "homework partner" asked me the same things earlier today...although she did decide that I'm too quiet and [seemingly] good-natured to actually be a lawyer.  I guess I'm seemingly good with the legal mumbo jumbo because of my lovely experience with it...thanks to taking business law and dealing with family member's businesses.  And I rambled on unnecessarily long again...sorry!   :-)
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Yes, I'd like one contract, please.

One in which states you will never use your "lawyer" techniques on me. My feelings get hurt easily, you know (Warning: tears may shed in result) *grin*  :guilty:


Just sign on the dotted line, when you're done. lol


And don't worry about how long your posts are. If we didn't want to read, we wouldn't be visiting a forum. *grin*


- Monopolized

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My feelings get hurt easily, you know (Warning: tears may shed in result)
Just sign on the dotted line, when you're done. lol
And don't worry about how long your posts are.
If we didn't want to read, we wouldn't be visiting a forum.
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